BM
This is a West Wimmera Health Service podcast. Presented by me Brigitte Muir.
This series focuses around stories and issues related to health and wellbeing. Some of the people we hear from are sharing their stories, hoping that their experiences will help us with our own health and wellbeing. Please be aware that some of their life experiences may touch on issues that are sensitive to some. Please listen with care. You will find information on seeking help if you need it in the notes attached to each episode.
Kelly Barnes was born in the south of England. She now lives in Dunkeld, with her dogs. In 2020, Kelly received the Victorian AgriFutures Rural Woman's Award for her work on linking mental health and… training your dog. How did that come about?
KB
Originally traveling I…I went to New Zealand and travelled and then came to Australia for… originally a couple of weeks, stayed for a year… and then just kept coming back and I've been here permanently since 2011.
BM
It's not just Australia, but to rural parts of Australia… and with a dog.
KB
That's right. I think I really missed having my dog, that I'd left behind in England and I was working on… sheep properties and I just really missed having my own dog. So when I was backpacking, I did get myself a… a black and tan working dog called Dugald.
BM
and it went from there, didn't it?
KB
That's right. Dugald and I have been on quite a journey. He was with me for… probably… 14 years…. 14 and a half years. We travelled around Australia, worked in WA, and he'd been everywhere with me. He recently passed away in… August.
BM
Oh…
KB
So yeah, so that's been quite a challenging, I guess a challenging time but also a really nice time to kind of reflect back and… and look at his journey… and our journey together and how much… he meant to me… been a kind of nice reflection. And I think with all the… Rural Women's Award, media and things I've got a really nice legacy for him as well, I've created this project and … and a legacy for him, to celebrate his life. So yeah, a nice … a bittersweet, but nice side to it.
BM
How did Dugald give you the idea of starting a dog school for mental health?
KB
I spent a lot of time with Dugald… everywhere. And then….he would… he would always used to, because we were backpacking he'd come everywhere with us, my friend and I. And then once we settled he would come to work in the shed, so I was working in a shearing sheds at the time, so he would come with me, or he'd go with my friend to help, and then… he… got injured, so he got hit by a car
BM
Gosh
KB
…and had a fear… had a… had a bad leg and a few injuries and then I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2015. So chronic pain and… fatigue. We just then kind of transition from spending every day working together to… spending time at home on the couch… and he would be there with me… when I was not feeling very great… and with his rehab and things it encouraged me to get out and… do some exercise and just gently… get moving and the same vice versa. So we kind of morphed into this chronic pain buddies… from working buddies to, you know… sitting at home on the couch and spending time together and I just really… yeah… looking back reflected on how much… having him with me and going through that with me, was a help. So then I've sort of got thinking, you know, that if my dogs can bring that much comfort to me and I really struggled obviously when I came you didn't have… my own dogs with me, perhaps or something with that, with farmers. Nearly every farmer that works stock has got a dog so, yeah maybe there's something in that, because there's a lot of information out there about therapy dogs and psychiatric assistance dogs. And then… you've got this massive untapped resource on farms that people could look at in a different way. So, yeah it sparked the idea.
BM
How did you go about finding people to go on… the one pilot project you've had so far? really
KB
I wanted this broad range of people. So… yeah, lots of different outlets to try and… attract that broad range of people. But within, roughly within, I think I said 100K's, but sort of… reasonably local so that they would form friendships and then… stay… friends after the program. So, instead of bringing in people from all over the country that probably wouldn't reconnect afterwards.
BM
That's a good point. I was wondering about that.
KB
Yeah, so… I sort of advertised on local, so, the local buy, swap, sell pages… the local farming pages on social media. And so…
BM
Were you looking for guinea pigs? [chuckles]
KB
[laughter] And a… [laughter] Not guinea pigs…that’s all… no… no… not guinea pigs, just people to kind of, I guess embrace it and enjoy the program and it was quite… heavily funded by the award. So it's a really good opportunity for people to attend something that perhaps wouldn't afford to do… another program similar to that.
BM
And you had a very special person in charge of the dog training, didn’t you?
KB
Ah, yes, Ian O'Connell. I had to pick someone that, I guess, someone that aligned with my values that really, kind of had that caring approach to their working dogs… and someone that would be… quite… I don’t know… I guess kind of almost unoffensive but… just a really easy person to get on with because of the nature of what we're talking about and trying to… to create that really safe environment. And Ian's… Ian’s great, and he’s really experienced… and really good to work with.
BM
What was your feedback from people who… attended?
KB
They loved it. One of my favourite statements, someone said it's a life changing program. So, I think it really gave them the confidence and the… skills to continue with their work… and learn new skills and also build their own confidence in training their own dogs, I think perhaps they weren't as confident prior to that. And the way the program was structured… so it's quite a… quite a different structure to any other program. So… spending one day a month, for six months, so that you really build those skills gradually… and come back… and we had a lot of debriefing and a lot of kind of… working through challenges and you know, what went right? but also what went wrong? How can we… fix that? and learning… similar to your mental health, like it's…it’s not easy training dogs, it takes time. It takes a lot of work, and it's that consistent, repetitive work that you're putting in. So… just being able to kind of go through and problem solve.
BM
Where did people get training for the dogs before that?
KB
There is a lot of dog schools and they are really popular…
BM
Working dogs schools?
KB
Working dog schools, yeah. But they're… they're always sort of… two days back-to-back or… they’re very intense days. Once you left you didn't really know what to do so you try a few things and… and have a go… but you then… sort of… needed to almost go to another one… to kind of… regain those skills and you've met some really great people but… you're so busy trying to take everything in that you don't really have chance to kind of socialise and… build friendships and connections either. Lots and lots of different people running dog schools but I guess not in that.. kind of… continual follow up format. Similar to you know, any kind of coaching and I guess that's what I really loved when I had to define my role in the… in the program was that kind of coaching and teaching people the skills to…to make habits and…and really embed these things in their day-to-day life.
BM
Do you know if people stayed in touch, after the end of the program?
KB
Yeah, yeah. So, I think they've had… one catch up that I know of… with a few of them and then I've… set up a Facebook group. So I set up a… like a messenger Facebook group for people to… keep in touch with and then everyone got everyone else's contact details. So …
BM
Yeah
KB
Yeah… It's really nice to see. I think there's definitely a lot of connections that have been made there.
BM
Fantastic. What's going to happen… next, are you going to be able to run those schools on a regular basis?
KB
I'm still trying to work out how that works, I guess, for me. So, the challenge…I guess, the reason it works, so well is running it over six months, but that's the challenging thing… is running it over six months. It's a big commitment for… the dog trainer. It's a big commitment [chuckles] for me… and…and for the participants. So, I'm just juggling at the moment with different ways that I can do it… and the… value comes from having that consistency over six months. But… is there a way that… we can add the value… in a shorter… period or with less face-to-face contact? So, maybe that becomes… like an online component. I'm very much against the online… side of it, because I think…we've all just been through two years of online and you just… don't get the social connection. And the thing that I really wanted was getting people off farm… getting them out and about… and meeting other people. So, I'm really trying to… transition that into a format that makes it accessible for other people. And it may be that it's a kind of train the trainer model, so that I… put a structure together, that other trainers…. so the dog trainers themselves can take on. Yeah, I'm sort of working through that. Something that… that's really common sense to me… and I pick up on things and I've got that natural skill of facilitating and creating conversations and structuring the day in a certain way and… really getting that social engagement that perhaps isn't everyone… you know, it's not obvious to other people. So, it's gonna just take a bit of work as to how… if someone else takes it on, how do they ensure those things are happening, what bits are important or perhaps… do you need to lay out a really solid structure and format, or what are the bits that are really important?
I was invited up to… up to the high country to a…field day and I took… my little dog Ashley who was… she was about four months old at the time and another dog, and we just stood there and had conversations… and people would come up and ask me about the dog, and then we explained that we're talking about mental health and… it just broke down so many barriers. So… there's another element there… which I want to explore of just, you know, take away that kind of structured… school side of it. The value of just having the dogs around and having those… conversations and how having… you know, having a dog can open up such a great conversation. So, there's lots of different elements, lots of different ideas.
BM
Not every person… farmer or not… treats their dog the same way though, for… some people they’re just tools… living in a cage except when they need it. How do you… deal with that?
KB
I think it's a bit of a stigma or a bit of an old school thinking that you can't… have your working dog in the house… you can't… pat your working dog and I think that's an absolute load of rubbish. Back in the UK I got this cream kelpie… he was young, and he was just wild and he was… really… full of attitude and the best thing I ever did!... purely… for not knowing what else to do, but I had him…I bought him inside… of an evening, and it was always on a Friday night, so I didn't have to get up the next day, and he'd come in and you know, I would have Friday night on the couch. And he was so much different after that and he just really needed to bond with me, and have that relationship, and if you go back to ancient times dogs were part of the pack. They're really designed to be part of your… human pack. Everyone is going to treat… their dogs differently to some degree, but it's just breaking down that stigma… and making it okay that that is a living creature and that then becomes your work mate… as opposed to just a tool that you put back in the cage and…and treat in that way. So, it's just really, I think… trying to kind of change people's thinking a bit… and make it okay that… they can have a dog with them and have their dog in the front of the ute, if that's what you want to do, and you know really use that dog as a support and that's where… I guess… that focusing on the… the therapy elements of those dogs and the other… skills those dogs have.
BM
And it sounds a lot healthier… not just for the dog and the dog owner but also for the rest… of the people… on the farm.
KB
That's right and I think even for the livestock, like once you learn… to work your dog well once you have that really good bond, you work in a lot calmer manner. You're a lot less stressed. There's people who joke about divorce in the sheep yards…but you know there's a lot less arguments [chuckles]… everything goes a lot better and we all know stock thrive… in a low stress environment, so that… the new productions increased as well. So, there's all these added benefits. I think that you know, the opportunities are endless, but the value of having a really good dog… and having that really good bond
BM
Sounds all, very exciting… and I can see lots of good things happening in the future. And I look forward to perhaps interviewing you in a year or two, and seeing… where the dog school went to.
KB
Yeah, absolutely. So, one thing I… one thing I'm working on this year, so I have a young dog called Ashley… who… is named after Ash Barty. She doesn't by the way, she arrived at a around the time of the Australian Open, who… anyway, Ashley's just coming up to 12 months, so I’m gonna start training her to become a therapy dog. So, she's a cream kelpie… so she's yeah… she's kind of a little bit different looking and that attracts… people and yeah, just start through the conversation. So hopefully in… in 12 months’ time Ashley will be much better behaved, and… you know, will be doing some great work
BM
Lead by example [chuckles]
KB
That's right [chuckles] yeah and I'm more than happy to put my hands up and say sometimes I'm not very good at training my dog, or you know, some things go wrong with me as well, so… yeah. Ash…Ashley… talking about personalities, Ashley's bloodlines are really quite stubborn. So they're… they're a very independent, stubborn… line… of dogs. So, if you really want, you know, you've really got to work with that. She… she doesn't like being told what to do sometimes and… there's no amount of telling her that will… will win her over and then the next day she will be an absolute angel and do exactly what you want. So, that's another lesson for me, I guess, is really working with that dog's strengths… and those personality traits and… and really understanding that… same as, as humans. You know, work with your strengths…
BM
and accept your weaknesses. And do something about it if you can.
KB
That's right. And sometimes you can't, sometimes you just accept that you're not going to be very good at something, and that's okay.
BM
It's absolutely okay. Thank you so much for talking with me today, Kelly, it's been wonderful.
KB
That's alright and you're welcome. Anytime to talk about dogs, is a great time.
BM
That was Kelly Barnes from Dunkeld, mental health through working dogs.
You will find as always contact numbers and details in the notes attached to this episode. And while you're at it, please give us a star rating. We'd also love to hear your comments and suggestions. Our Facebook and Twitter details are in the notes. Until next have a healthy life won’t you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai edited by West Wimmera Health Service Health Promotion Team.